March 13, 2009

Conditional Sentence vs. Conditional Discharge

Many people are confused about the difference between a conditional sentence and a conditional (or absolute) discharge. The confusion may arise because in both cases, the accused avoids going to jail. However, there are important differences between a conditional sentence and a discharge which can affect a person's criminal record as well as future employment and travel opportunities.

Conditional Sentences
A conditional sentence is given when someone is convicted of an offence, and the court allows the person to serve the sentence in the community, rather than in jail, as long as they obey some conditions (hence the name). These conditions may include a curfew, keeping the peace, and not being in possession of weapons, drugs or alcohol, among others. If a person breaches any of these conditions he or she is usually sent to jail to serve out the rest of the sentence. Conditional sentences are only available where the sentence is under two years and where the offence has no minimum mandatory jail term. A conviction resulting in a conditional sentence is still a conviction and will appear on a person's criminal record.

Conditional Discharges
A conditional discharge occurs when a person is found guilty but the judge enters a discharge instead of a conviction. There are two kinds of discharges; conditional and absolute. A conditional discharge comes with requirements such as probation, counselling, etc. which must be fulfilled before the conviction is discharged, whereas an absolute discharge is immediate. If the conditions are not fulfilled, then the person is convicted of the original offence and sentenced accordingly.

Unlike convictions, discharges do not appear on a person's criminal record. Also, a person who receives a discharge can honestly say that they have never been convicted of a criminal offence, which can be very helpful in an employment or immigration context.

While a guilty person should always consider asking the court for a discharge, the court will only grant a discharge where the test, set out in section 730 of the Criminal Code, is met:

The discharge:
  • must be in the accused person's best interests; and
  • must be not contrary to the public's interests.

Discharges are granted most often where the offender has no criminal record, the offence is minor and the offender has taken steps to ensure that he or she will not re-offend in the future.

81 comments:

  1. No, you're sugar-coating it like everyone else on the planet. A record is kept in CPIC and by the charging police agency when a conditional or absolute discharge is the resolution. A Criminal Name Index search will yield "not cleared" or "a record may or may not exist" which is an implied criminal record. If you're given a conditional discharge you hang onto this for 3 years AFTER the discharge becomes official. It is by no means a lenient response and has serious implications that affect travel, educational, and occupational opportunities.

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  2. Thanks for this comment. Do you have a link to any further information about this which I could post, or are you going by what you have heard/experienced?

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    1. Policy On The Purging Of Criminal Records

      Absolute Discharges
      •All absolute discharges received on or after July 24, 1992 , are removed from the criminal record after a period of one (1) year from the date of sentence.
      •Absolute discharges received before July 24, 1992 , are removed upon written request from the individual.

      Conditional Discharges
      •All conditional discharges received on or after July 24, 1992 , are removed from the criminal record three (3) years following the date of the sentence.
      •Conditional discharges registered before July 24, 1992 , are removed upon written request from the individual.

      Please download the Request to Purge Absolute and/or Conditional Discharge form and complete and send to:


      http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/pp-er-eng.htm#a4

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    2. hello im tony tudor I was given a 12 month conditional discharge on September the 30th and the conditions was not to get in trouble by the police for 12 months and on the 4th of November I was arrested again , do you no whether I will go tp prison I don't have a criminal record and It is a completely different offence to what I got the 12 months conditional discharge , my offence was fraud and theft and this one is abh I have been done for I just need to know so I no what to expect and with my grandad just passing away on the 5th of November 2013 every thing is getting on top of me , if you can send me what you think will happen asap to tonytudor106@yahoo.co.uk please I really need help I suffer from depression and have got a mental health illness which is suicidwel thoughts and self harm I have a 1 and a 3 year old daughter and I just really need some kind of advice on what may happen , please email me asap at tonytudor601@yahoo.co.uk

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  3. Section 6.1 Criminal Records Act:
    http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-47/page-4.html

    "Record Linkage of Criminal Data in Canada"
    http://dsp-psd.tpsgc.gc.ca/Collection/Statcan/85-602-X/85-602-XIE.pdf

    CPIC FAQ:
    http://www.cpic-cpic.ca/English/crfaq.cfm

    Immigration Consequences of Criminal Activity
    http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/75248.pdf

    (See Immigration and Nationality Act, Section 212 for more information)

    To clarify, I was speaking specifically about travel to the United States.

    A Canadian Conditional Discharge is not recognized under U.S. law, but since it's an admission of guilt it is tantamount to a conviction. You can be denied entry if the offence is deemed a "crime of moral turpritude" which is purposely loosely defined in the INA so border guards/officials can deny entrance.

    Also, since the CNI search may yield multiple results it cannot be relied upon fully, but remember that human bias is fueled by perception. And if you're perceived to have committed an offence, psychology tells us you're less likely to make it over the border, less likely to earn your acceptance to med school, and less likely to get that executive position you've been eyeing.

    The phrase "criminal record" gets thrown around way too easily and it's purposely misleading to suggest a conditional discharge is a slap on the wrist.

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  4. I have been trying to pin this issue of conditional discharge down for months now. And no one can provide a "definitive" answer.

    I understanding that a conditional discharge is not a conviction in Canada and does not result in a permanent criminal record. A conditional discharge is visible through CPIC and local police records for three year after the date it was handed down by the judge. Yet some also claim it's three years after you satisfy the conditions of the discharge. It would be nice to know the facts there too. However, assuming the former. In Canada after you complete the "conditions" of the discharge which are always going to be at least one year of probation, and some program, your conditional discharge effectively becomes an absolute discharge, and in either case you can honestly state you have never been convicted of a crime. Now, anywhere in Canada if you have a run in with the police, or a background check is performed, during the one year you received an absolute discharge or three years after a conditional discharge, any query will result in a "positive" hit. Indicating there is a record with your name and date of birth on it. After the one and three year periods have passed that same search will return a "negative" hit. Indicating no records found. This assumes the records were correctly expunged from the database and local police records like they are supposed to. So this would be the situation of were you have no permanent "criminal record" assuming you don't have any further run ins with the Law. Your life goes on without any history of a criminal record.

    Here is were things get fuzzy. If say you plan a trip to the U.S. and you are 2 years into a conditional discharge, the U.S. consider a conditional discharge a conviction, and they are free to do so, it's there country. When you cross the boarder, and if the customs officer queries our CPIC, and digs a bit they will find out you have a conditional discharge (read a conviction). They now enter you into their system as a convicted criminal. They are under no obligation to expunge their records after the three year period. So when you return to the U.S. 5 years after the conditional discharge was imposed, the U.S. customs agent, will query our CPIC and see no criminal record, but if they query their database, you show up as a convicted criminal.

    So as long as you wait for the records to be expunged from Canadian Databases, you will not have a "criminal record" here, or anywhere you go. But if you get on to a none Canadian DB, based on their laws, you may have a permanent criminal record. So if you want to immigrate to the States, do it after the 3 years of the conditional discharge, ensure the records have been expunged and in spite of what the INA want you to declare you can legally claim you have never been convicted of a crime and they have no records to prove otherwise.

    That is my understanding based on what I've been able to read. It would be nice to have that understanding validated.

    So and absolute or conditional discharge is not a slap on the wrist. It can have very serious impact, especially if you travel in your work or wish to travel outside of Canada.

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  5. So, after reading this and the links here I am even more confused. If you have a conditional discharge (or more than one) and it's been way past the 3 year period for each, does one have a criminal record or not?

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  6. I don't believe you would. Assuming you haven't travelled outside of Canada. One sure way to find out is to contact your local police and see if the records have been expunged. You can also make a requrest to check the CPIC. If either comes back with something and its after the 3 years on both discharges. You may want to speak to the criminal lawyer who worked for you. And find out how to fix the problem. My reading indicates you need only ask for the oversite fixed. Please post your experiance so we can all better understand this confusing legal issue.

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  7. i was charged with theft under back in june 2006,and got a conditional discharge and 2 years probation,so 3 years has passed,i went to the RCMP headquarters in toronto to get a background check and to my surprised ,a week later i got the results in the mail,it shows that i have a record,so i came back to get my records expunged and now i have to wait from 6 to 8 weeks,i was really hoping nothing would show up but it did,so i will keep you guys posted

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  8. Finally! The post on January 23, 2010 sums it up correctly. However, the 3-year "waiting" period for the CPIC record to be expunged starts *AFTER* you have completed the conditions set forth in the discharge. It does *NOT* start the day you received the sentence from the judge. So, depending on the length of the discharge, you could end up waiting more than 3 years before the file is purged. It's a great way to postpone living your life! Just forget about career searching and traveling in the U.S. for 3+ years!

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  9. Of course, you could apply for a travel waiver, but then you're basically saying "I'm a criminal, can you please consult CPIC and place my file in your sketchy American system for eternity?"

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  10. Valuable post on Feb 21. If the post on Feb 26 is correct (WRT my post on Jan 23) The conditional discharge is effective to the end of your probation. That would be one of the conditions of the discharge. So you meet all your conditions 2 years after it was handed down. So in 2008 your condition discharge effectively becomes an absolute discharge. Now (re: Feb 21 post) the 3 year clock starts running. So that means the expunge should happen in 2011. I look forward to the follow up Feb 21 post. I read that in the case of an absolute discharge the clock starts running the day it's handed down. It makes sense to me they keep the playing field level and do the same for a conditional. However, the logic may be once your conditional is met and it becomes absolute the clock starts ticking. I can see both sides of it, I look forward to the follow up post.

    Just as an FYI. This discussion really only applies to US travel. America, IMHO, is a bit anal about this, but it's their law. Other countries are far more liberal about this situation. I have been told to contact the Embassy of the country you want to visit to get clarification on their policy. Only makes sense I guess. In any case you should not have any problems getting a passport with any discharge, and the only clue on the passport would be your finger print record is embedded in the Passport. Again with a discharge you can honestly state you have never been convicted of a crime in Canada.

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  11. I am confused too. On the Canada RCMP website, it states that your record will be purged 3 years after the date of sentencing. I'm guessing sentencing means the day the judge handed down the sentence? I am hearing and reading conflicting opinions on this matter. Please follow-up on this post. thanks.

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  12. Ref Mar 10, 617am post. I researched some more info and can confirm the time line is 3 years from date of sentence. Both the Bar Association and the RCMP have same info.

    http://www.cba.org/BC/public_media/criminal/203.aspx

    http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/pp-er-eng.htm#a4

    So Ref Feb 21 posting, June 2009 appears to be the date your conditional discharge should have been expunged.
    As it appears to not have been the case I would also contact the police force that made the original arrest. They too should have expunged their records on 2009.

    Another nugget of info is, I believe it is CRIMS that gets expunged. CPIC is only the tool the police use to query for records. So no record in CRIMS, no hits in CPIC.

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  13. In response to the post on March 10th. I believe it's 3 years following the court decision/sentencing. That is maybe why the maximum number of years a probation may be imposed is 3. However, this is what the Criminal Records Act states:
    "
    No records shall be disclosed:

    (b) more than three years have elapsed since the offender was discharged on the conditions prescribed in a probation order.
    "
    This is where it gets confusing. I believe you are only discharged once you fulfill your conditions. So in this case it may mean 3 years after your probation order. It would be great if someone with the expertise in this field can help clear things up.

    In addition, I would also like to know what gets purged aside from the record in CPIC? what about your fingerprints and photos? what about records kept by the charging police department?

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  14. Here is more conflicting information from a local police agency:

    "CONDITIONAL DISCHARGE: Will automatically be purged three (3) years after the offender was
    discharged on the conditions prescribed in a probation order."

    http://www.wrps.on.ca/images/stories/Records_Police_Checks/destruction-fingerprints-photographs-dispositions.pdf

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  15. Good question about the fingerprints and photos. I believe, since they are part of the discharge, they are also expunged. This seems supported by the Mar 13 pdf from the Waterloo Regional police. Which I would take with a grain of salt since the key to all of this is getting the data out of CPIC/CRIMS. Immigration and boarder agencies don't access local police records. Unless they are investigating something specific.
    The reason I made the Jan 30 post was to see if we have someone who really knows what happens. I've spoken with 2 criminal lawyers and they both couldn't give me a straight answer. Well they are conflicting answers.
    I look forward to the follow up on Feb 21 post. This should give a real world example. But since there is so much confusion about this, not only from the people who have received a condition discharge, but the poeple who hand them out and enforce them. It looks like it will depend on local interpretation of this quote from the ACT, specifically the interpretation of the word discharged.

    "CONDITIONAL DISCHARGE: Will automatically be purged three (3) years after the offender was
    discharged on the conditions prescribed in a probation order."

    Considering this is one of the most common rulings in Canada and it has such a major impact on people, you would think the questions could be authoritatively answer by anyone in the legal profession.

    My understanding of the ACT has me leaning towards, the "discharge" occurs when the judge rules on it, the day he hands it down. The "conditions" must be met to satisfy the ruling. If that is true, than that will clarify everything. How the local police view it then become unimportant. They are obligated to expunge as directed by the law. Naturally, my interpretation means nothing, we need a clear case, or historical examples.

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  16. it would have to have the conditions met on a conditional discharge. example
    You have 125 community hours to do on you cond. discharge, as well as report and get counselling. You report, do the counselling but didn't do the CSW hours. You get a breach on those csw hours=new charge. The probation officer has to close out the conditions as satisfied.

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  17. FYI
    I received a conditional discharge in 2004, and completed my year of probation and counseling. I was given a 'clean' police records check for employment last year. I need to apply for this every year for work and I was informed this year that last years 'clean' report was an error. I was told my conditional discharge would show on my next records search and be there indefinitely ,and it was at the discretion of the Detachment Commander what was included (for my employer to see)I'm trying to get help on this but....good luck it seems the 'rules' are that there are no 'rules' regarding this matter.

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  18. I think we are starting to confuse the issues. WRT Mar 15 10:22 post. The PO has no impact on the law. There sole job as you pointed out is to ensure the conditions are satisfied. And report on the likelihood of re-offending. Naturally if they think there is a problem, all bets will be off and you're dealing with other problems.

    I think the confusions stems for the terms used. If we substitute "conditional discharge" with "conviction" (Which is effectively what is happening with a discharge), is the conviction (aka conditional discharge) effective the day it is ordered by the judge or is it effective after the associated punishment? I think it becomes clear at this point. It appears that the RCMP and the CBA interrupt it the same way, the clock starts ticking when the judge orders the discharge.

    The post on the 18 is odd. I think we are missing some details. The local police have to follow the law too. The Detachment Commander doesn't get to set his/her own rules as they see fit.
    If you received a CD in 2004 and you met the conditions without any problems along the way, your records get expunged by the RCMP in 2007 (2008 depending on the debate of this thread). A conditional discharge and it's records are not indefinite. This could be getting confused with a Pardon. You get a pardon for your crime but your records never get expunged.

    The criminal code is a federal act, a local law enforcement agent must adhere to it. You may be dealing with a low level administrator who is just misinformed. If you're already dealing with the Detachment Commander, I would ask for a copy of the document / policy that empowers the Commander with this and then I would be on my way to a lawyer with it. Good luck.

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  19. Thankyou for the advice. I've done much research in the past few days and the grey areas still seem to be confusing me. Yes a conditional discharge does 'disappear' for all intents and purposes from CPIC BUT if you have stayed in your hometown employers are now in the habit of requesting details of any police 'incidents' reports from the local police. CHARGES will show up even if it is a charge that was totally bogus and dropped once you reached the court house. FYI incidents involving the mental health act can also appear.Even though your criminal charge has 'dropped' off of CPIC this local report will show you were involved in it. I feel this totally eliminates the process of a discharge or even pardon because even if you have been 'cleared' of charges a psychological impact is made on your potential employer because this is there on an incident report to be read. From my information so far each police detachment follows their own 'house policies' regarding distribution of this information. Last year when I had a great report someone else was in charge. This year someone else has taken over who views his 'discretionary' powers differently. I have called the Ottawa RCMP, Pardons Canada, Esprit Place, and lawyers all with different results. Some police departments very much separate an 'incidents' report from a criminal records search, some combine the two saddling you with the baggage of any call or contact you have had with the police at their discretion. I guess I'm just warning those like myself who plead out to a conditional discharge thinking it would 'go away' This is not necessarily the case. You may be stuck with this well after the time frames set for discharge because of the involvement of this 'other' records check.

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  20. I think I have a real answer to our questions. Well at least one of them. I live in Ottawa, and after a couple conflicting statements from lawyers, and even a law professor, I made a scheduled visit with my PO today. I posed the question directly to her. She stated it was on of the most misunderstood parts of the condition discharge. And... drum roll please.

    As stated in the Act, the RCMP policy and the Bar (CBA) documents listed earlier. It's 3 years from the date the Judge makes his/her ruling, not when you complete the conditions.

    The RCMP manage CPIC and other than a delay usually based on case load, they are pretty good and getting it right. Now, she did say to check with them, knowing administrators are administrators things slip past. So follow up!

    WRT local police, they use CPIC when doing background or criminal checks at least in Ottawa, and are bound by the same Criminal Records act as the RCMP. Local police records are kept for 10 years as standard practice, just like you should keep your tax returns for 7 years. They must keep there for 10. Once ten years have past they are destroyed. And if destroyed means the same thing as it does in the most government agencies that means incineration.

    If your local police are not following the release of Criminal records information as outlined in the Act and disclosure in accordance to section 29(1) and 32 of the Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act and the Police Services Act, RSO 1990, c.P.15

    They are not working and play withing the rules (at least in Ontario, I would imagine other provinces have similar rules).

    All I would add is if they are NOT working and playing well with others, take them to task in the courtroom or at least your city counsel / Mayor. A CD is just that, and once you done your done, that is what is was intended for. It has nothing to do with pardons or the likes, after the 3 years it's as if it didn't happen. They can't keep digging it up for employment background checks. That said, I spend 10 years in a very high security establishment and they checked my colon 3 years for any hint of trouble. I would expect that to be relieved in such a check. But if you're working at anything other than National security or banking, a CD or police reports should not show up after 3 years.

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  21. Hi
    I like the 'colon check' ha ha. Anyways I'm going for a Vulnerable sector check. I've paid to have electronic fingerprints done to speed up the process. I was informed you have to really 'keep an eye' on the RCMP as they do not expunge the conditional discharges automatically as they are supposed to. I was advised to fill out a form called 'REQUEST TO PURGE ABOSOLUTE AND/OR
    CONDITIONAL DISCHARGE. and send it to the 'Officer in Charge' Pardon and Purge Services Box 8885 Ottawa. (just in case) My date of discharge was in 2002. I was to receive a clear criminal record certificate this week if things had been automatically cleared as they were supposed to. NO record showed up- SURPRISE! My discharge was not related to a sexual offence, so, to the best of my knowledge, I should not be having a problem right now--but I am.
    I've gone through the 'Commissionaires' to get a full copy of just what the RCMP has on file about me. This has been a nightmare, I paid alot of money to take a health care course. I was given a clear record check when I started. I got straight A's all year. Now it seems the 'rules have changed' I'm not getting a clear check again and I wasted my time and money. I've had no contact with the police for 8 years.

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    1. WELL I WAS GIVEN A ABSOLUTE DISCHARGE,ON A THEFT OVER CHARGE ,AND ALSO GIVEN A ABSOLUTE DISCHARGE FOR THEFT UNDER,NEVER BEEN IN TROUBLE BEFORE ,THEN I WAS WORKING AND DOING WELL,6 MONTH PROBATION PERIOD WAS UP FOR MY JOB AND THEY NEEDED A RECORD OF CONDUCT.MUCH TO MY SURPRISE IT WAS THEIR,3 YRS LATER.AFTER PRESENTING THE COMPANY WITH THIS ,THEY LET ME GO AUTOMATICALLY,NO IFS ,BUTS,OR ANDS,MY JOB WAS GONE ,I NOW AM WAITING TO SEE IF AFTER 7 YRS NOW IF ITS CLEARED,HONESTLY,I BEEN IN TOUCH WITH MY LAWYER THAT REPERSENTED ME AND SHE INFORMED ME,IT SHOULD OF BEEN GONE AFTER 2 YRS,WELL ILL SOON FIND OUT IM APPLYING AGAIN TO GET A RECORD OF CONDUCT FOR EMPLOYMENT,AFTER 7 YRS.I WONDER IF THEY PURGED MINE BY NOW,IF NOT MY LAWYER IS CONTACTING THE CHIEF ,I HAVENT BEEN IN ANY TROUBLE SINCE,I WAS WITH A VERY HARD ABUSE MAN,THAT I WAS AFRAID OF AND ACTED ON HIS DEMANDS,HE IS HISTORY NOW 8 YRS SO WE WILL SEE WHERE I NOW STAND SOON.SO ALL THIS CONFUSHION OVER A ABSOLUTE DISCHARGE,AND A CONDITIONAL DISCHARGE WITH 1 YR PROBATION,THAT I NEVER BROKE,NO TROUBLE WITH LAW SINCE,IS REALLY OFF MY RECORD.IF NOT MY LAWYER WILL BE SENDING THE CHIEF OF JUSTICE A LETTER,OBVIOUSLY SOMEONE NEVER DONE THEIR WORK.I GOT A WEEK TO DO THIS,BUT TO CLEAR MY MIND I WANT TO C IF THE R.N.C DONE THEIR JOB,OR HAVE I FALLEN BETWEEN THE CRACKS OF THE KANGAROO JUSTICE DEPT?ILL KEEP U POSTED.I CAN RELATE TO YOU ALL,IM SUFFERING BECAUSE OF A MAN THAT DONE THINGS,AND I TAKES THE RAP,SORRY IM WIZER NOW,MORE OLDER AND MATURE,LOOKING BACK I JUST THANK JESUS I GOT CLEAR OF HIM.HE WAS SO ABUSIVE AND I TRYING TO RAISE A CHILD THAT WASNT HIS BUT MY SONS FATHER BEAT ME UNMERCIFULLY,THREW HIS SON IN CRIB AT 9 MONTHS OF AGE.I FINALLY GOT HELP THREW A BATTERED SHELTER HERE IN N.L AND TOOK THE RISK OF BEING KILLED BY EXCAPING WHILE HE WAS AT WORK,HE TOLD ME IF I FIND OUT WHERE U LIVE I WILL BURN YE!!!THE COURT TOOK CARE OF THAT,I HAVE FULL CUSTODY OF MY SON WHOS NOW 20.YES 20 AND IM PROUD I DID IT ON MY OWN,NO HELP FROM HIS FATHER.SO I THOUGHT I MET A LOVELY MAN,BANG OUT OF FAT AND INTO THE FIRER,THATS WHERE ALL THESES THEFTS CAME ABOUT,SO HERE I AM NOW 41 YRS OLD.SECRETARIAL DEGREE,RETAIL CUSTOMER SERVICE CONSULTION,YET WITH ALL THAT I CANT LAND MYSELF A JOB HERE IN N.L DUE TO THOSE CHARGES.ABSOLUTE DISCHARGE,AND,A CONDITIONAL DISCHARGE,UNREAL GOING ON NOW 8 YRS NO TROUBLE WITH THE LAW AND NOT INTENDED TOO.ILL FIGHT TO THE BITTER END TO SEE MY RECORD OF CONDUCT CLEARED,ILL BE IN TOUCH.

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  22. This is all not true. I received a conditional discharge in 1989. In 2001 I was pulled off a plane in the USA and sent back to Canada, and now must get a travel waiver before entering the USA. My record was not automatically expunged, and the USA could care less what the RCMP says. I had no other record of any sorts.

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  23. To the last poster, you are a special case: since you were given a conditional discharge BEFORE July 24, 1992 you must contact the RCMP to have your file expunged. All conditional discharges handed down on or AFTER July 24, 1992 will automatically be removed from CPIC database after a wait period is met. This is well documented online.

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  24. And further to APR 27th post. Since there was no action on your part to have your old record expunged, you now in the good old USAs database, and they see a conditional discharge as a conviction. So you are stuck with a waver for as long as they maintain there records. Sorry to say it but, a little research would have saved you a lifetime of USA trouble. Incidentally and checks here in Canada will also show up until you make the request to the RCMP to have it expunged. Go here http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/pp-er-eng.htm#a4 and give it a read and follow the instructions.
    Good luck.

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  25. If your conditional discharge stays on your record for 3 years. If it was after 1992 it will be purged automatically from the system but if your charge was before 1992 then you have to write to them and get it purged. it is a simple process go to www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca and write them and it will be removed.

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  26. Im wondering if anyone has seen the latest questions on the AB "security clearance" form? It asks "have you ever had any contact or charges with the police?". Yes/No details? Now as I read the Act, and the Charter of Rights, this is getting a little invasive for a basic security clearance? They won't let you take the form with you either which should be setting off some alarm bells ..... In 2008 it was a simple CPIC check, now they are asking for 6 - 8 weeks to investigate???

    Shouldn't the Privacy commissioner be involved with this? I mean I can't think of anything more private than a criminal record that is expunged? And if you answer no to these questions (knowing the record is expunged) is that fraud? It all seems very contrary to teh intent of the "discharge" .....

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  27. I have no idea what a AB security clearance is. Perhaps you could provide details. The question is very vague. I'd be tempted by saying yes and report a parking ticket.

    The criminal lawyer I've spoken with was very clear that if you are asked the question, "have you ever been convicted of a crime". You can safely say no without worry of fraud. Once the CD is complete.

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  28. http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/yk/crimrec-verifcas-eng.htm

    http://surrey.rcmp.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=75&languageId=4&contentId=6214

    "4. Police information located on computer systems (e.g. Police Information Retrieval System (PIRS), CPIC, PROS, PRIME, LEIP) and information located through local police indices checks. This will include all information related to non convictions and all charges regardless of disposition."

    A Level 4 check involves querying local Police databases. As discussed, the local police might not purge their records until 3 years after the conditions of the conditional discharge have been met. Meaning, even if the 3 year "count down" begins at the day of sentencing, that applies only to what's in CPIC. Not the local police database. So, if the local police databases are queried, it's quite possible to have the search yield "not clear", even after your file has been purged from CPIC. That's my understanding, anyways.

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  29. I was given a conditional discharge 1991. Because it was prior to 1991, I had to request the record to be purged. I had successful removed it from both CPIC and local police. You can do a search at the local police. Result is instant.

    To be eligible for removal:
    it is 3 years from the day you are sentence for conditional discharge and 1 year for absolute discharge.

    Do not take it for granted that it is automatically purged if you have conditional or absolutely discharge even it occurs after 1992.

    My friend who was given conditonal discharge thinking that he didnt have any record afterv 3 years. He was stopped at the U S border. Recently he applied for removal of his record. When he did a criminal record search, his record exists. And now he will need a waiver(a hassle). United States do not recognize our system, so even his record is successfully removed, it remained in FBI data bank.

    Anyone who has a absolute or conditional discharge should always go to your local police to do a search after 1 or 3 years has elasped.

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  30. Just to try to keep things in perspective. It is automatically expunged. However, and this may only be a minor inconvenience to police services, but a huge hassle for anyone with a CD.

    The RCMP are about a year and a half behind in expunging records. I've been told if you follow up and make a few calls, generally rattle their cage, they get to it in a more timely manner.

    It's just good practice and common sense given the nature of the consequence to check before you go to the USA.

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  31. MY friend waited 4 years (was told by his lawyer that no criminal record after 3 years) after his conditional discharge before he crossed the border to Buffalo. For the first 5 or 6 times crossing the border, he never encountered any problem until last year. His criminal record was discovered when they run a search on him. He was sent back and told him that he would need a waiver to visit in the future.
    He later found out that the police service submitted wrong information on the disposition to CPIC. RCMP record shown suspended sentence instead of conditional discharge. As a result, he was denied because the record was never erased like any conditonal discharge.

    ReplyDelete
  32. http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-47/page-4.html#anchorbo-ga:s_6

    The Criminal Records Act clearly states the following:

    "Act current to June 4th, 2010"
    "Discharges
    6.1 (1) No record of a discharge under section 730 of the Criminal Code that is in the custody of the Commissioner or of any department or agency of the Government of Canada shall be disclosed to any person, nor shall the existence of the record or the fact of the discharge be disclosed to any person, without the prior approval of the Minister, if
    (a) more than one year has elapsed since the offender was discharged absolutely; or
    (b) more than three years have elapsed since the offender was discharged on the conditions prescribed in a probation order.

    Purging C.P.I.C.

    (2) The Commissioner shall remove all references to a discharge under section 730 of the Criminal Code from the automated criminal conviction records retrieval system maintained by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police on the expiration of the relevant period referred to in subsection (1).

    1992, c. 22, s. 6; 1995, c. 22, s. 17(E)."

    There you have it! Your conditional discharge is expunged three years after you have met the conditions set forth in your probation order. Not from the day of sentencing. Debate over. The Criminal Records Act does not lie.

    ReplyDelete
  33. as per June 23 comments and towards the whole debate, I spoke with my PO yesterday in regards to this whole issue. I was advised by her that the your discharge is CONDITIONAL on completing the probation/counselling etc that was set forth on the day of your sentencing. She dragged up a copy of the act on her computer which said that your discharge is complete 3 years from the date of your sentencing. If you do not abide by the conditions of your sentence then you open up another can of worms which could include a longer sentence, jail time etc. She explained that the conditions set forth have to be completed by three years to the date of your sentencing. She also explained that the wording of these acts can be very tricky and confusing. While waiting for my appointment there was a gentleman waiting there as well for another PO. He has a long history with the law and told me that he was sentenced by a judge to his first CD just over five years ago. He was told that it would be purged 3 years from the date of his sentence and sure enough within 3 months to the date it was expunged. He had 2 years probation during this time so if we went by what the act proposed by the comments of June 23 then he would only now be getting his CD when it was granted to him 2 years ago. I knwo its all still a little confusing but after speaking to a PO and someone who has already gone through the system it looks like the act from the RCMP is correct where it is purged 3 years from the date of conviction.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Hearsay trumps the law? Unless you can post a specific subsection from the Criminal Code that verifies your claim, it is a moot point. For every "I heard someone say this" remark there are just as many of those same remarks in the opposite direction.

    In order to bring clarity to this debate, a reference from the CC or a Judge is needed to determine when the statement "on the conditions prescribed in a probation order" applies.

    ReplyDelete
  35. So here is my experience, I waited for three years and then applied for jobs that required criminal record checks. I went to my local police station and paid a few dollars to have them run a criminal record check. It came back clean. I applied and go the job :)

    I called the police and a lady officer said that the US might still be able to access information about my discharge. I thought this sounded silly as even local police couldn't find anything. Why would this police officer make it sound like US homeland security has more power to dig into the past of Canadians than the Canadian police force?

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  36. Well, I have to say that I am more confused AFTER reading all the posts. Regardless, I appreciate everyone's comments and assistance. I'm about a month away from completing my probation and counselling for assault. I still don't know how long my conditional discharge will be visible for. I guess my main concern is with future employment, as I am moving on to other things. My sentence was handed down last August. What is a good step-by-step I should follow. How long do I have to wait for this to clear? My lawyer also mentioned to me, at court a year ago, that he can assist with the process to have my prints and photos cleared. Sorry people... I know I'm not really asking a specific question, but it's just because I have no idea how this will all play out. Real confusing. I guess all I can ask for is continued posts with good info. And let's say that the 3 year period begins on the date of sentencing. Within that 3 years, if asked about a crminal record by a potential employer, I do have to say that I have one, is this correct?

    ReplyDelete
  37. 3yrs after probation comleted as read up top...I read
    Conditional Discharges

    •All conditional discharges received on or after July 24, 1992 , are removed from the criminal record three (3) years following the date of the sentence.
    •Conditional discharges registered before July 24, 1992 , are removed upon written request from the individual.
    Please download the Request to Purge Absolute and/or Conditional Discharge form and complete and send to:

    RCMP
    PARDON AND PURGE SERVICES
    Box 8885
    Ottawa, ON K1G 3M8
    Fax: 613-957-9063

    3 years following sentence...which is correct

    ReplyDelete
  38. All of this information pretty much sums up my experiences so far. I was given a conditional discharge in Oct.2006. In March of this year I went to the court house (because I wasn't sure when the discharge would happen) and found out that it was discharged in Oct.2009, 3 years after the sentence was handed down. I was told it would not show up on a police check. No such luck. It showed up on a police check and even says the sentencing~conditional discharge but not that it was granted.
    I then contacted the court house again and was given a certified copy of the discharge~which states that the information will not be disclosed to any persons there after. While at the court house this time I spoke to a (duty counsel) lawyer, who stated that I had to apply for it and there was a form on the Attorney General's web site-totally inaccurate information.
    I then contacted the RCMP pardon & purge department in Ottawa and was told that yes, they had taken it off and to go back to my local police station and let them know that.
    So, I contacted the administrator that did the check. She said that it still shows up at a local level and it's up to their discretion and since I was applying for a vulnerable check that is why they put it on there. When I pointed out that the discharge states it will not be disclosed to any person, she said it's not any person, it's me. She did also say that I don't have a criminal record. ??
    I had let it go for a month or so because it is very frustrating. I am now trying to get it straightened out again. I have gotten a referral and am waiting for a call back from a lawyer. I am going to get a letter from the RCMP stating it has been removed. While talking with the referral service they mentioned contacting an Ombudsman. I did do that and was told to give a copy of the discharge to the police station and if they are still putting it on a police check then write them a letter asking them why they are still leaving it on. I was told at that point to contact the OIPRD- Office of the Independent Police Review Director.
    I know I have no helpful information, this has just been my saga. From the posts on here I am also going to contact the Detachment Commander of my local police department and may look into the Privacy Commissioner.
    I just hope to get some concrete, absolute information and get this mess taken care of. Hopefully without too much more of a struggle also.
    I have found these posts very interesting and hope someone can find out the truth and how to go about getting things taken care of.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Very interesting thread to say the least.

    I have received 2 conditional discharges since 1996 and can say with certainty that the 3 yr. period (in both of my cases) began from the date of sentencing (this is not heresay, it is my personal experience). My first discharge was in 1996 and was expunged in 1999. My second discharge was in 2007 and was expunged in 2010 (I still have the letters from the RCMP confirming this fact as in both cases I prompted them to remove my information - even though it's supposed to be done automatically. Better safe than sorry).

    This removal of information related to the conditional discharge relates to the "national" level and not necessarily to the local level. I just got off the phone with the local police station where I was charged and they said they hold onto their reports for years and years (regardless of whether the records have been expunged nationally). Also, I was told by the local station that it is up to their discretion what to put in a local record search - they said it depended on the nature of the request and the circumstances surrounding the charges (domestic, sexual, etc.) were more likely to draw a positive reply than more minor items - also the older the charges, the less likely they would be disclosed. Again, nothing hard and fast - just guidelines. I was told that I could apply to have my fingerprints and photos destroyed at the LOCAL level free of charge however the police report would still remain.

    QUESTION: I haven't travelled to the US since 2006 (i.e. did not go there during the 3 yr. discharge period). So now that I have my letter from the RCMP stating that I've had my records expunged nationally, am I correct in assuming that the US border guards - if they do a background check on me at the border - will not have any records show up (i.e. they just check national records and not local?)

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  40. One assumption that I think must be questioned is the fact that a purged record from CPIC will not be viewable upon entry to the U.S.

    How do you know with certainty that all new entries into CPIC aren't automatically propagated into some U.S system?

    In that case, a person's criminal history would still be accessible. So, it's not just CPIC that needs to be understood, but how CPIC is used south of the border as well.

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  41. A Conditional sentence DOES not go away. I received a conditional sentence approx. 7 years ago. However, I recently applied for a job and had to undergo a criminal record check. It does still show that I something on my record. After doing some research, I found that you can apply to have your finger prints and "paper trail" destroyed, but there is no time guidline set out. Just wanted to let people out there know, that a conditional sentence/ discharge can come back to haunt you.

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  42. wait for the period when your conditional and absolute discharge period ends, then take the following steps.
    Check CPIC whether your dishcarge being purged, if not purged then file application with RCMP to purge it, make sure to send them corut documents. If your discharge reocrd is selaed then file an application with your chraging police to ask them to destroy your fingerprints and photo's. Make sure that you do not fall under the charges which are primarary and secondary charges.
    When ask police to destroy finger prints, make sure you give them certified copy of court decesion, if it is possible take your finger prints and let them know there are no outstanding charges against you.
    Once record sealed from CPIC and charging police destory fingerprints and photo's everything shall be on track.
    Make sure during dishcrage period do not visit USA otherwise you will get into more trouble.

    ReplyDelete
  43. I got a charge back in 2003, and reading the above I got confused, I went to the US border in 2006, they asked me if i had some record, I said no(becuz I was young, and didnt know what to say), they said "are you sure" so I was then asked to be pulled over and they search my car, which had nothin related to my charge, I was then released entry on US soil.
    So ever since then from 06, I havent been back since, because I hated the pull over and questions, 4mnths ago I applied for a pardon, becuz the pardon services said with a pardon I can leave country (vacation)and with pardon it will clear all matters,(I really didnt know if I need one at all) I then got in mail I was denied and found out I wasnt convicted, but had a CD, the pardon officier I dealth with then tried to "erase" my file on the local police records, and they sent her back a letter saying I was denied as well...so I have a question

    1. So am I clear to go to USA border again w/o hassles? or are they gunna see some "red flags" again cuz I was down there in 2006, during my "3yr" or not? in 2006 they still let me pass..

    I hope someone chimes in on my post here, thank you in advance

    ReplyDelete
  44. Crossing USA Border 4 months ago "NO Problem" but a few day's ago me and my wife crossing the USA border the officer asked me do you have any convicted charges against you...answer was NO I told him I just haveing a volunteer criminal record check we were sent inside to further investigate.. we went inside and hand the passport to officer ten minutes after officer called his name and asked him what is the confict charges reply back he don't have any officer said you are lying and I can handcuff you...repeat what is the charge for...that time I was in shock..The oly think I can think of maybe conditonal chage 30 years ago assault charge for slapping the love one that time emotional anger overwhelmeing me...now I am almost 60 years old...That day we supposed celebrate 34 years together at a nice restaurant accross the USA border and ended up being treated like a ciminal because I thought no criminal record means no convicted right? American still think I am criminal... first ask for drivers license and finger print and picture me and denied entre into USA YOU go back to Canada..So What do you think of this,,,

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  45. Ok I have spoken to a lawyer who specializes in travel issues with criminal records.
    I was charged with harrassment in Oct 2010 and given a conditional discharge. As long as I meet the requirements, I will be given an absolute discharge in Oct 2012
    In Oct 2013 this will be then become an absolute dischage, at this time I can go through a lawyer and have my record removed/purged from th cpic system (the system the u.s uses) Once you are removed from the system, the u.s will not see this.
    Good news is your passport does not link you to your criminal past, the bad news is the cpic will show your info to the u.s
    I was advised to avoid travel to and via the u.s until my records are purged and this should be fine.
    Travel to other countries should be fine as long as you do not go via the u.s
    Another solution is to apply for a waiver, but the cons to this are that your record will appear for ever with the u.s authorities...

    ReplyDelete
  46. To the last poster, no, you do not "go through" a lawyer to expunge a record of a conditional discharge in CPIC. The entry is automatically purged three years after the date of the disposition.

    To the second last poster, if you received a conditional discharge prior to July 24, 1992 you will need to make a written request to have your file purged.

    "Conditional Discharges

    All conditional discharges received on or after July 24, 1992 , are removed from the criminal record three (3) years following the date of the sentence.

    Conditional discharges registered before July 24, 1992 , are removed upon written request from the individual."

    http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/pp-er-eng.htm

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  47. OK GUYS I'M GOING TO CONSOLIDATE EVERY BITS AND PIECES OF USEFUL INFORMATION IN THIS LONG AND CLUTTERED COMMENT SECTION.

    THIS IS THE SUMMARY:

    CONDITIONAL SENTENCE - YOU'RE SCREWED

    CONDITION DISCHARGE- NO CONVICTION, RECORD PURGED (ERASED) FROM CPIC (NATIONAL DATABASE) 3 YEARS AFTER THE SENTENCE (COURT DECISION). EX. JUDGE HANDS YOU A CD ON JAN.2010, RECORD EXPUNGED ON JAN.2013

    CD BEFORE 1992, YOU WILL NEED TO MANUALLY GET IT EXPUNGED

    CD AFTER 1992, AUTOMATIC

    YOU WILL STILL NEED TO MANUALLY GET YOUR FINGERPRINTS AND PHOTO DESTROYED AT THE LOCAL "ARRESTING" POLICE STATION

    LOCAL POLICE STATION WILL STILL KEEP A RECORD FOR 7 YEARS. YOU CAN WRITE TO THEM GIVING THEM A REASON WHY THEY SHOULD DESTROY IT (WORK RELATED, MINOR OFFENSE, HARDSHIP ETC) ANOTHER SOLUTION IS WORK AT A DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITY OR CHANGE YOUR HOME ADDRESS TO A DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITY. THE EMPLOYER WOULD ONLY CHECK THE LOCAL POLICE STATION FROM WHERE YOU RESIDE.

    DO NOT TRAVEL TO THE US WITHIN THE 3 YEARS BECAUSE IF THE BORDER GUARD SEARCHES YOUR NAME IN THE CPIC SYSTEM, THEY WILL SEE THAT YOU HAVE A CD AND WOULD DOWNLOAD IT INTO THEIR SYSTEM. YOUR RECORD WILL BE IN THE US'S SYSTEM FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER.

    MAKE SURE YOU DO YOUR OWN CRIMINAL RECORD CHECK AFTER THE 3 YEARS TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE EXPUNGED FROM THEIR SYSTEM.

    APPLY DUE DILIGENCE AND PRUDENCE.

    MY CD IS ALMOST UP. I'M GOING TO PARTY IT UP IN LAS VEGAS IN 2011!!!!!

    GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  48. So I completed the form (from local police station) to destruct adult fingerprints, photographs and records of dispositions associated with non-conviction disposition. I got a letter from the RCMP saying it was done.

    If I go to my local police station and ask them to check the charges against me, it shouldn't show up, right?

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  49. My experience has been that your record is clear from CPIC, however, local police can keep for as long as they would like. In essence you still would have a criminal record.

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  50. I got a absolute discharge in 1995. I ignorantly assumed that it meant I never had a record. I have never had any other encounters with the police. I have never been denied access to the US. When I have been stopped by police for traffic violations nothing has been said to me. I have applied and received my Nexus card and I stated that I have never been convicted of a criminal offence. Should I be worried that after the fact something may pop up? I don't want to have any problems travelling due to something that occurred in 1995 and my misinterpretation of what an absolute discharge meant. Any and all comments are welcome.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Go to your local police station and pull your CPIC record to ensure that it was purged properly. I think it costs $30.00 If it was purged properly, you will have no issues entering the US. If it wasn't apply to have it purged in writing to the RCMP. Go back after and run another background check on CPIC's system to ensure your record is clean, then you should have no issues entering the US.

      Delete
  51. Discharges do not appear on a criminal record? They sure do, 3 years for conditional and 1 year for an absolute discharge.

    ReplyDelete
  52. I've gone through the process, and this has been my experience:

    3 years after the completion of the sentence is when RCMP cleared my CPIC record.

    If there are any other charges stemming from the same arrest where your photo and fingerprints were taken, you need to request them to be removed/made non-disclosure statue in a seperate action, even if you werent convicted or even tried on them.

    Criminal Record is a misunderstood term. Inside Canada it usually means having a conviction on your record. However, increasingly it means having a file in CPIC. If you have ever been arrested, fingerprinted, and photographed by any police department in Canada, you have a CPIC file. Even if charges were never brought against you by the crown. It's your responsibility to contact the arresting police force to have them request the RCMP to destroy your photo and fingerprints, which will effectively remove you from CPIC.

    For the purposes of entering the USA, a person who was mistakenly arrested once, but was photographed and fingerprinted at the station, may well have a "criminal record" Your name would show up in CPIC, and that is enough to be denied entry into the USA and be recorded in US databases as not fit for entry into the USA.

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    Replies
    1. Wow so i could have had all charges dropped completely and still have a record at the local level and a cpic file? I was fingerprinted and had a photo taken.

      Delete
  53. I had a conditional discharge judgement handed down in 1983. I met the conditions of the discharge as of 1984, so we're talking 28 years ago approx. I've just recently gone through the hiring process with a municipality in Ontario and been given a formal job offer. Obviously they ask that you sign a consent for a criminal background check. I did send a request to the RCMP pardon and purge services because this was dispositioned before July of 1992. Any idea how long the purge would take? I pray that this wouldn't show on a check as this is a huge opportunity for me and I'd hate to think that something I did 28 years ago when I was a stupid kid would come back to haunt me now. At the time the judge handed down the sentence he said outright that the reason he was doing this was because he wouldn't want it to "ruin my chances in life later on". His words exactly. It would seem that having this show up on a check would go against the very reason he dispositioned it this way in the first place. As well, there's the whole non-disclosure issue. If after three years someone could still find out about a conditional discharge, does this not contravene the Criminal Records Act of Canada? I'm worried sick about this...an excerpt from the act below...
    "Discharges

    6.1 (1) No record of a discharge under section 730 of the Criminal Code that is in the custody of the Commissioner or of any department or agency of the Government of Canada shall be disclosed to any person, nor shall the existence of the record or the fact of the discharge be disclosed to any person, without the prior approval of the Minister, if

    (a) more than one year has elapsed since the offender was discharged absolutely; or

    (b) more than three years have elapsed since the offender was discharged on the conditions prescribed in a probation order.

    Purging C.P.I.C.

    (2) The Commissioner shall remove all references to a discharge under section 730 of the Criminal Code from the automated criminal conviction records retrieval system maintained by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police on the expiration of the relevant period referred to in subsection (1)."

    ReplyDelete
  54. Hello, I got conditional discharge in january 2011 for 18 months, so in july 24 ill get out from my conditions and it will be conditional absolute. Im currently working for a really good company, of course i got the job before they put in the system lol. So I got a offer form another IT company, offering me " good money" so i decided to take the risk to leave my currrently company, they did like me, i was almost about to sign paper work when they did criminal check, and it shows up " may have or may not have", so my question is: in july when my probation is gone, may have or may not have" could still show up?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In 2009 the RCMP issued a directive to agencies conducting reference checks requiring them to adhere to the "Dissemination of Criminal Record Information" interim policy (http://www.cpic-cipc.ca/English/crimrec.cfm). Apparently, some agencies were not abiding by the CPIC Reference Manual, which doesn't surprise me in the slightest given the incompetence of law enforcement. Anyways, third-party agencies conducting reference checks on behalf of employers may now only provide one of three generic responses. If you read the policy in its entirety you'll be able to convince yourself that a conditional discharge will not trigger the 'positive' response.

      Delete
    2. thank you.. :)

      Delete
  55. As a Canadian trvelling to Mexico DIRECT, would this be affected by a Conditional discharge? thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nope, this is not an issue UNLESS the plane has to make some sort of emergency unplanned landing on US soil. In which case, you would go through customs and would be flagged :(

      Unlkely but no impossible...

      Delete
  56. When the RCMP pruges or seals a conditional discharge, does your FPS # (fingerprints) get purged aswell? Or do US customs have access to FPS via CPIC? So, if your criminal records are purged via a conditional discharge and a FPS # pops up, US customs will see a FPS # because you were finger printed, but no criminal record... As this point they will ask why you were fingerprinted...

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  57. So 6-7 years ago I got charged with assault but got a conditional discharge. I am going back to school for a Psw and they require a vunerable sector check. Will this show up?

    ReplyDelete
  58. In England and Wales, a conditional discharge is a sentence vitiating the finding of guilt in which the offender receives no punishment provided that, in a period set by the court (not more than three years), no further offence is committed. If an offence is committed in that time, then the offender may also be re-sentenced for the offence for which a conditional discharge was given. Pursuant section 14 of the [[Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000] and R v Patel [2006] EWCA Crim 2689 the conditional discharge does not constitute a conviction unless the individual breaches the conditional discharge and is re-sentenced.

    An absolute discharge is a lesser sentence imposed by a court, in which no penalty is imposed at all. Exceptionally, however, a court occasionally grants an absolute discharge for a very serious offence. (The signalman in the Thirsk rail crash, who was found guilty of manslaughter, is an example of this.) This usually signifies that while a crime may technically have been committed, the imposition of any punishment would, in the opinion of the judge or magistrates, be inappropriate.

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  59. In Calgary some 40 years ago I was given a conditional discharge. I was told at the time that a written request would remove fingerprints etc. At that time I was just so embarrassed to come back and do that. Knowing about all the troubles at the borderI have had a CPIC criminal check done on line by a company called mybackcheck.com. After 48hrs the results came back as clear record.
    We will be traveling to the US ...and I am now worried sick. Anyone have any idea if they just search the CPIC data base or are their searches more extensive?
    What a worrisome price to pay for a small stupid mistake. I cant even remember the exact dates..somewhere between 1972 to 1976??? My wife had no idea of my problem as we have travel to US all the time with no problem in the past.

    ReplyDelete
  60. I am on conditional discharge Court date was July 22, 2009 so I will be completing 3 yrs by next month July 22, 2012.
    I am thinking of filling up the form from RCMP to get my record purged althoug it said the form is to be filled up by those who were discharged prior to July 24 1992. I dont know if I am doing the right thing I am trying to be extra caution to send them a reminder. Would anyone advise if this is right?

    Thanks

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  61. pls has anybody has conditional discharged in the las 2 years and tell us if he is clear and clean to get a job with no problem after he finished his conditions?

    ReplyDelete
  62. I got a CD in 1982
    I was told i would not have a record.
    I was hassled at US border Sep. 2012 and the customs guard said "tell me about all your contacts with the police. You have been fingerprinted before tell me why." So I did. He let me through to the US but said that the next time I would have to have a fingerprint check done by the RCMP which shows everything and submit it at the booth. He said, "If the only offence was what you told me then you should be OK.
    Do you think I screwed up by telling him??
    I am currently waiting for my border/visa waiver to come back from the RCMP and I understand that I probably will want to write to the RCMP to have it removed however do you think it will make a differrence since I have fessed up the US customs official already. Remember he let me continue through that day.

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  63. I am wondering about the truth of this statement.

    "If the conditions of the discharge are met it becomes an absolute discharge."

    True? False? Would this speed up the removal of CPIC records? Based on what I have read above, the answer is no.....

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  64. That is correct, but you will have to wait three years before it will be permenantly removed from CPIC record. That doesn't mean that you can be denied many jobs that require a basic security clearance.

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  65. Well i was charged with uttering death threat in 2005 and sentence mar2006 with conditional discharge. Well Jan 2013 went for criminal check and guess what...yep it showed. You have to purge your file with RCMP.....

    ReplyDelete
  66. Can I sue Legal-Aid if they screw up my life?

    ReplyDelete
  67. I am a teacher. I get vulnerable sector screening and criminal background checks. Will a discharge show on my vulnerable sector screening check?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yes It will. Sorry to say it.

      Delete
  68. here are my thoughts on this, and my information is based on going through the immigration process:

    1)an absolute discharge is discharged immediately at sentencing with no conditions and removed from cpic after one year. an absolute discharge is NOT A CONVICTION in the eyes of immigration.

    "Based on a March 2, 1993 memorandum issued by Winston Barrus regarding U.S. immigration consequences for absolute and conditional discharges under the Canadian Criminal Code, the memorandum notes that absolute discharges for all crimes are not considered convictions for the purposes of United States immigration law. This includes all crimes involving moral turpitude (CIMTs) and all drug-related charges as well. However, the memorandum notes that conditional discharges are regarded as convictions for the purposes of United States immigration law, even though Canadian law does not view them as convictions."

    The problem with all this, is that for immigration purposes, they do NOT need a conviction to deny you, only the reason to believe that you COMMITTED a crime of moral turpitude. this means that even if you had the charges dismissed, they are able to deny you based on any admitted evidence, which they are able to see if they dig up court transcripts, charging documents etc.


    Petty Offence Exemption:

    INA:ACT 212:

    (2) Criminal and related grounds.-

    (A) Conviction of certain crimes.-

    (i) In general.-Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of-

    (I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense) or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime, or

    (II) a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to a controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)), is inadmissible.

    (ii) Exception.-Clause (i)(I) shall not apply to an alien who committed only one crime if-

    (I) the crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age, and the crime was committed (and the alien released from any confinement to a prison or correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States, or

    (II) the maximum penalty possible for the crime of which the alien was convicted (or which the alien admits having committed or of which the acts that the alien admits having committed constituted the essential elements) did not exceed imprisonment for one year and, if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of 6 months (regardless of the extent to which the sentence was ultimately executed).

    In canada, there are not many that fit into this category absolutely, but there are crimes that are hybrid offences, where the court can choose to proceed summarily, or by indictment. If you are charged summarily, then you fit the definition described above and have a record of conviction that clearly states you were charged summarily, and bring the CCC statute showing the maximum sentence is less than a year, then they shouldnt deny your passage, and should update their computer accordingly for future entries. Now I say "shouldnt and should" because they can deny a person regardless, and then you have to appeal the decision through border patrol, who forwards the appeal to the deciding parties.

    this is information gained by reading the INA, the USCIS handbooks, a million UCSIC appeals and decisions, and having a legal background. This information is not to provide any legal advice and should not be taken as such. If you have a criminal past of any kind, you would be wise to consult a qualified attorney before taking the advice of anonymous posts on a website.

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  69. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  70. Thank you everyone for your comments.

    I am wondering if anyone can shed light on how a conditional discharge would effect me settling in the UK from the US. I was born and raised in the US but a couple years ago moved to the UK to settle with my husband who is a British citizen. While I was in the process of settling in the UK, I had to fly back to the US because I was brought up on charges for collecting unemployment a few years ago. I plead guilty and was sentenced to a conditional discharge (3 years) from 2012-2015. I am currently in the UK but my Spousal visa expires in June of 2014 during which I will apply for residency. Does anyone have any experience in this area? Will I be able to apply for residency with the condition not being fulfilled for another year? Will the UK be able to see my Conditional Discharge from the US? I was told that a conditional discharge does not follow you outside the US and they are unable to see it is this true? I was also told that if it is a problem I could possible go back before the judge and request that he lowers the time from 3 years to 2 years, which will cost a bit of money.

    If anyone has any information to steer me right please share.

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    Replies
    1. every country changes! law sucks

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  71. I did a criminal check with police after I got a CD, let me tell you that it is a criminal record, no matter what! I am unable to get a job. I have to wait the 3 years period.

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